[Freegis-list] ArcInfo to Free conversion

[Markus Neteler]

On Tue, Jan 09, 2001 at 11:42:34AM -0600, lbottorff at harveycounty.com wrote:
> Thanks for the detailed analysis, AC. Actually, we've got the ArcInfo 8 loaded,
> but we're not using any of the real 8 improvements, i.e., we're just using 7 in
> 8's clothing. (BTW, as far as we know ArcInfo 8 objects are all but unusable
> without the $10,000 SDE add-on!) Otherwise, there is no training to be lost,
> because nobody here has any training! (Maniacal laughter in background...)
> Previous work was done by a self-taught employee who left before really sharing
> any expertise. My experience with ArcInfo is minimal and I basically do heads-up
> corrections on existing parcel maps. Yes, our basic mission is to get parcel
> data out--probably over the Web. One or two other employees will have to
> actively use the data to overlay, e.g., a soil map and then calculate the new
> areas of the different soil types inside a land parcel. That's as far as others
> will be involved: one or two interactive users doing low-level user stuff, and
> many others looking (drilling down into) at parcel maps on a Web page or in a
> Windows app. But doesn't tcl/tk run native on Windows? That's the impression I
> get from ActiveState ActivePython. Can GRASS (running on Linux) be a server to
> Windows clients?

Perhaps an idea: Why not spending the "proprietary maintenance tax" into
such a project like GRASS? That will speed up its development - of course it
remains free. Such GRASS-related funded projects are already running, but it
could be more.

And keep in mind: An open source project is what people make of it. So the
GRASS Development Team is open to interested programmers and open to new
ideas! Many new features are on the way (like a new GUI, integral database
management for vectors etc), but more "staff" is required to finish them.

Cheers

 Markus

PS: http://www.geog.uni-hannover.de/grass/grassdevel.html



> On 09 Jan 2001 09:27:15 +0000, Markus Neteler wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 08, 2001 at 04:16:58PM -0600, lbottorff at harveycounty.com wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > We just got a bill for our ESRI ArcInfo "Maintenance Contract": $7400. I
> have
> > > permission to investigate alternatives. We currently are using ArcInfo 8 and
> > > have developed many megabytes of land parcel maps on their software. My
> basic
> > > question is, can we use something like GRASS?
> > ... why not :-)
> 
> 
> Let me first state that I have not used GRASS in a production
> environment so listen to those who have and take their advice over mine.
> This is principally a note of caution.
> 
> The answer to your question is that it depends, and depends especially
> on three things:
> 1) the use to which you are putting ArcINFO 8
> 2) the level of training of the employees using the system
> 3) the cost of retraining vs the "tax"
> 
> ArcINFO 8 allows for geographical objects which previous versions did
> not and I believe GRASS has not yet adopted (CORRECTIONS ANYONE?). If
> these are the elements you are storing in your database then you are
> using the most powerful part of the commercial system and you won't be
> able to convert. If you happen to be using simpler functionality then
> you could convert but consider:
> -the graphical user interface of ArcINFO 8 is vastly supperior to
> GRASS's
> -the graphical user interface of ArcINFO 8 is "windows-like" and
> therefore vastly easier to understand than GRASS's
> -the integration of ArcINFO 8 with other software will be much easier
> for the forseeable future.
> 
> 2) GRASS was built on UNIX systems and still seems to be UNIX like at
> heart. In this way it is closer to ArcINFO 7.x. If you have been using
> earlier versions of ArcINFO and are willing to live (or enjoy) a
> command-line interface then GRASS is a reliable alternative. Do the
> employees who use the software know UNIX? Are they at least well trained
> in computers?
> 
> 3) the transition from one system to another always costs a whole lot.
> If you have a reliable system up and running it will invariably cost you
> more to change than to keep paying the "tax". That's why the "tax"
> works! :-)
> 
> So my belief and recommendation for your situtation is that you will
> probably have to pay the tax. HOWEVER, that does not mean that you can't
> plan to get yourselves away from it. Make yourself or another employee
> keep an eye on the development of GRASS and other software (like OSSIM).
> Some of these projects are going really fast now and could quickly
> become viable alternatives. Try to get  a sense of how you are using
> ArcINFO and what you would need to have as a replacement (in abstract
> terms such as: we need to run transactions of land-parcels, updated
> nightly and displayable over the web). Finally, talk to the neighbouring
> counties. Every county in the country has the same problem as yours. If
> you could all get together (not ALL but many) and decide to up your tax
> $1000 a piece for the next couple of years, you could easily pay to have
> programmers write Free software that served exactly your needs. Talk up
> the idea with your neighbours and in a few years you may have
> HarveyCO-GIS. :-)
> 
> --good luck,
> adrian
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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-- 
Markus Neteler *  University of Hannover
Institute of Physical Geography and Landscape Ecology
Schneiderberg 50 * D-30167 Hannover * Germany
Tel: ++49-(0)511-762-4494  Fax: -3984